guntheroks wrote: captive bred snakes know a humans touch from the moment they are born. humans aren't a threat to them. humans are their caretakers.

captive reptiles can be just aqs dangerous as whild cought.

as far as i think reptiles can get used to you but will never have a emotional bond with u cuse their simply not disigned that way. (personal opinion)

but the problem here is that there isn't really a serious problem and that the sollution will create more and bigger problems then it will solve.

newname wrote:

guntheroks wrote: captive bred snakes know a humans touch from the moment they are born. humans aren't a threat to them. humans are their caretakers.

captive reptiles can be just aqs dangerous as whild cought.

as far as i think reptiles can get used to you but will never have a emotional bond with u cuse their simply not disigned that way. (personal opinion)

i dont know, i like to think that all kinds of species of animals are capable of showing emotion, all in their own ways. some animals are better than others (ie. cats and dogs). but i know that my leos know who i am, and are more calm when i hold them, over someone else. and the ball i have had for over a year knows me and is used to me and will let me do anything with him, but i just adopted a ball from a guy that said it had no temperament issues, but he hisses at me all the time! im sure several people here know of specific things that their reptiles do around them and no one else. thats what makes having pets so wonderful. the way they connect with you!

i do agree that captive bred CAN be as dangerous, but for the most part, i dont believe they are. the chances of you getting bitten by a captive bred over a wild caught is much much less (imo). not to mention that wild caught carry more disease than well raised captive bred.

i think alot of problems involving reptiles is strictly on the person caring for them. if you dont respect that they are a wild animal (even if captive bred) you put yourself in more danger. reptiles go through changes in moods just like people, and if you arent attentive enough to be able to notice it then you may get bit!

http://www.regulations.gov/search/index.jsp

There is another link that you may be able to use to leave comments. Our letters need to be clear, fact based, and professional.

newname wrote:but the problem here is that there isn't really a serious problem and that the sollution will create more and bigger problems then it will solve.

Right here is the thing that bothers me the most. This appears to be nothing more than another attempt to control our lives on a level they have no right of doing so, rather than control any real problems that exist.

The federal government has became too big, too powerful and has gotten to the point that almost any law they pass anymore is completely unfounded. It seems they are passing laws just for the sake of passing laws in an attempt to justify their own existence. And while they are doing it they are stomping on our fundamental rights to choose for ourselves as well as saying what we can and can not do in the privacy of our own homes.

This is a very bad thing. If this bill does pass, that means no importing. That sucks in its own rights but thats not the biggest issue. This also means no shipping. This is going to kill the pet trade. Many people will be out of business and it will be hard to get reptiles. This also means no reptile shows and expose. This also means that if you own one of these snakes and you move to another state, you either need a permit or you have to give up your snake(s). Please when you submit a comment, make sure all your info is filled in right and also try to make it a big point that jobs will be lost and business will be affected. This will affect economy. Not just breeders but rodent producers, dry goods, cage builders, etc. Try to keep it proper and to the point. This could also be a gateway bill to help ban other reptiles.

it can just be that they need more money and are looking for something they can fine.

If that's the case they are going to be losing more money than they are making in the long run.

A lil more info:

Below is a link to a USF&W Service document outlining the process of
adding animals to the list of injurious wildlife and providing general
information on injurious wildlife
http://www.fws.gov/contaminants/ANS/pdf ... et2007.pdf
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------

Marshall Meyers, the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council’s executive
vice president and general counsel interviewed USFWS staff, and PIJAC
and the USFWS provided kingsnake.com with the following Q&A.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------

Marshall Meyers: What was the motivation for the Federal Register
notice?

USFWS: The recent NOI is our first step in better understanding the
issue of potential environmental impacts of released pet snakes. We’re
hoping that this Q&A will help people to better understand what the
recent notice is, and what it is not.

In August 2006, the Fish and Wildlife Service was petitioned by South
Florida Water Management District to list the Burmese python (Python
molurus bivittatus) as an injurious wildlife species. Scientific
information is required in an injurious wildlife evaluation, and we wanted to
look at these three constrictor snake genera (Boa, Python, Eunectes) to
see if there were other similar species that might pose an environmental
risk. We kept the notice broad so we wouldn’t exclude a species that
could impact native species and perhaps be of concern.

What is the most valuable information for your effort?

We are hoping for biological information, such as potential range,
diet, longevity, size of species at maturity, reproduction, differences
between captive-bred animals and wild animals, etc. We are also looking
for information on existing programs to reduce the potential for pet
snakes to be released into the wild. Responses need not be limited to the
questions listed in the NOI.

Why are you also requesting economic information?

We currently have little information about the value of domestic trade
in these species, and it is our responsibility as part of this process
to gather a range of information on the species of interest. This
includes economic data.

What do you plan to do with this information?

We will use this information to help understand the potential risks and
develop outreach to prevent the release of unwanted pets. If
well-documented impacts to wildlife and the environment are identified, we may
use this information to initiate an injurious wildlife evaluation on one
or more species, a process that would invite public review and
comment. We may also use the information to work with states that are
interested in permitting systems.

In what ways can PIJAC or other groups and the USFWS work more closely
together on this issue?

We don’t want to see pet snakes released into the wild. We previously
worked closely with PIJAC to develop an outreach campaign called
Habitattitude™, which focuses on preventing the release of unwanted
aquatic pets and plants. We are currently expanding this campaign to include
reptile and amphibian pets.

Is there anything else that you want snake enthusiasts to know?

Just as a better scientific understanding of the needs of reptiles has
allowed us to be more responsible caretakers of our pets, a better
understanding of the potential impacts of these pets in the wild allows us
a fuller appreciation of the environmental consequences in releasing
our unwanted pets into the wild.

Please visit http://www.regulations.gov to submit your comments and data.
Also, it is important to keep in mind that despite the central website
name, this NOI is not a proposed regulation.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------

PIJAC PetAlert February 11, 2008 (US FWS Snakes)


FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE SEEKING INFORMATION ON CERTAIN CONSTRICTOR
SNAKES

The Issue.

The United States Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) is currently
reviewing available biological
and economic information and asking for any information from the public
on constrictor snakes
from the Python, Boa and Eunectes genera for possible addition of some
of these species to the
list of injurious wildlife under the Lacey Act. (NOTE: Even though it
published in the
Proposed Rules section of the Federal Register, this is NOT a
rulemaking proposal - it is
only a fact finding initiative.)

After reviewing data received, the Service will carefully consider
whether further analyses may
be useful for certain species. They will also use this information to
help communicate the
potential risks of feral constrictors and expand outreach to prevent
the release of unwanted pets.
They might also use the information to work with states that are
interested in permitting systems.

What does an injurious wildlife listing mean?
• An injurious wildlife listing prohibits the importation and
interstate transport of the
species, gametes, viable eggs and hybrids between States, the District
of Columbia, the
Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or any territory or possession of the U.S.
by any means.
• Even if ever listed, an injurious wildlife designation does not
prohibit State possession,
sale, etc. within a state. (However, a state law may apply)
• Permits may be granted by the Service for the importation or
transportation of specimens
of injurious species and their offspring or eggs for bona fide
scientific, medical,
educational, or zoological purposes. The Service will regulate all
movement, including
intrastate transportation, of a species for which a permit has been
issued.
• If a species was obtained prior to the effective date of a rule, a
listing does not prohibit
intrastate transport or possession of species within States, where not
prohibited by the
State. Any regulation pertaining to the use of species within States
continues to be the
responsibility of each State.

The Impact.

In order to determine if further evaluation and stakeholder
consultations may be warranted, the
Fish and Wildlife Service published this notice of inquiry to solicit
biological, economical and
other data, through public comments, on constrictor snakes from the
Python, Boa and Eunectes
genera. Information collected will be used to determine if any snakes
within these genera are a
threat, or potential threat, to wildlife, wildlife resources, humans or
interests of forestry,
horticulture and agriculture in the U.S. In the long run, if any of
these snakes are listed as
injurious wildlife they could not be imported into the U.S. or
transported into or between states,
the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico or any territory/possession of
the U.S. by any means
without a permit. Permits may be issued only for bona fide scientific,
medical, educational or
zoological purposes. (NOTE: Prior to listing, FWS must conduct a
science-based biological
analysis and economic analyses and seek additional public comment.)

The FWS is seeking public comments and supporting biological data on
the snakes in question.
In an attempt to notify people of the types of information they need,
FWS has asked for
comments on the following questions: (NOTE: Responses need not be
limited to these
questions, but it would be strategic to address them.
• What regulations does your State have pertaining to the use,
transport or production of
Python, Boa and Eunectes genera?
• How many species in the Python, Boa and Eunectes genera are
currently in production
for wholesale or retail sale, and in how many and which States?
• How may businesses sell Python, Boa or Eunectes species?
• How many businesses breed Python, Boa or Eunectes species?
• What are the annual sales for Python, Boa or Eunectes species?
• Please provide the number of Python, Boa or Eunectes species, if
any, permitted within
each State.
• What would it cost to eradicate Python, Boa or Eunectes individuals
or populations, or
similar species, if found?
• What are the costs of implementing propagation, recovery and
restoration programs for
native species that are affected by Python, Boa or Eunectes species, or
similar snake
species?
• What State-listed species would be impacted by the introduction of
Python, Boa or
Eunectes species?
• What species have been impacted, and how, by Python, Boa or
Eunectes species?

Recommended Action.

We ask that you withhold submitting your comments until close to the
April 30 deadline in order
to allow PIJAC time to provide you with guidance and information that
will help you prepare
effective comments. PIJAC is currently engaging in meetings with the
FWS and gathering
information to assist you on this issue. Again, please note, that this
is not a proposed rulemaking
notice – it is only a notice to gather information, especially
biological, on these particular snakes.
PIJAC is also undertaking an extensive literature search of
peer-reviewed articles, lay magazines,
and books to gather relevant information to respond to the questions
raised by the FWS. Anyone
who has copies of articles or other pertinent information on the
biology of any of the species
should send them to PIJAC at info@pijac.org AND to PIJAC’s Senior
Science and Policy
Advisor, Dr. Jamie K. Reaser:pijacscience@nelsoncable.com. Dr. Reaser
is compiling a
database which PIJAC will use this information to develop a formal
science-based response on
behalf of the industry and hobbyists as well as provide information for
people to use in crafting
their comments.

Thirdly, PIJAC is conducting a survey of concerned members of the
herpetoculture community
and the industry to collect data to answer the questions posed by the
FWS regarding numbers of
breeders, animals sold, economic questions, etc. This information will
be consolidated and
presented as summaries of data received without identifying individuals
supplying the
information. The FWS is very aware of the concerns of many people about
revealing their
identity. If you are interested in providing herpetoculture data to
PIJAC, please contact PIJAC at
info@pijac.org. All proprietary data (i.e. contributors’ identity,
numbers of animals, financial
data) will be treated as confidential information and will only be seen
by PIJAC staff.
We urge you to review this notice carefully and consider the
implications that could come as a
result of listing these snakes as injurious wildlife. If you have
further questions concerning this
matter, please contact PIJAC’s Marshall Meyers by phone at
202-452-1525 or by email at
mmeyers@pijac.org. Those who are not members of PIJAC and desire
further information about
membership may phone Nancy Knutson at 1-800-553-PETS (7387) or visit
the PIJAC website at
http://www.pijac.org.

Where to send your comments:

FWS will be receiving comments and other information on this issue
until April 30, 2008. You
may submit comments by one of the following methods:
• U.S. mail or hand-delivery: Public Comments Processing, Attn: RIN
1018-AV68,
Division of Policy and Directives Management, U.S. Fish and Wildlife
Service, 4401
North Fairfax Drive, Suite 222, Arlington, VA 22203; or
• Website: http://www.regulations.gov (Follow instructions for submitting
comments. In the
“comments or submissions” box type in keyword: “injurious
wildlife”. This should take
you to the comment page.).
FWS will not accept e-mail or faxes, and will post all comments on
http://www.regulations.gov.
This generally means that FWS will post any personal information you
provide. For further
information contact Erin Williams, Branch of Invasive Species at (703)
358-2034 or
erin_williams@fws.gov.

Not Yet a PIJAC Member?
For more than thirty-five years, the Pet Industry Joint Advisory
Council (PIJAC) has ensured the
prosperity of the pet industry. To learn more about PIJAC, please visit
our website at
http://www.pijac.org. For further information, please send an e-mail to
members@pijac.org or phone
1-800-553-PETS (1-800-553-7387).
Our Business IS Your Business. PIJAC: Keeping You in Business.


You can get atomatic updates sent to your e-mail by going to http://news.pethobbyist.com/index.cgi/u/herplaw/

The movement of such animals, if not properly managed, can cause the dispersal of ticks or other unwanted ectoparasites that accompany the specimens (field-collected or captive-bred and reared) being traded or introduced into captive breeding facilities. Absent the establishment of Best Management Practices and Standard Operating Procedures, facilities engaged in import, export, distribution or captive breeding may unintentionally cause the introduction and spread of unwanted ectoparasites that may be injurious to the host animals, other animals within or outside the facility, humans, or the environment.

Here is something I found reading through one of the links you gave us..
I think this is the real answer to why the ban on shipping BOA's and ball pythons and I feel it will not stop with them only it well grow into all reptiles. Because the real issue is infestation of ticks or any other ectoparasites. If I am right all reptiles poss a posible threat. I really just think it is easier to start with the animal people really dont understand and are affraid of first then move onto the rest. So no matter what your reptile is if you let them start they will not stop.
Just my oun thoughts on this subject not facts. Thanks for my chance to sound off. butchsnowsundance

thats bs, just a lame excuse toat doesnt make any sence. ticks are EVERYWARE if you go in the woods you risk ticks, cats and dogs get ticks, rabbits get ticks.

if this is about the threath of parasites then they chould be banning cats dogs and other mammels first cuse they carry over 10 times more parrasites then reptiles.

and if the reptiles form a problem with parasites than every family of snakes in the area can import them so banning a random groop is not a solution to the problem. they actually make up a problem to do something and what their doing doesn't even solve the problem.

The issue with ticks getting imported from Africa is that they carry diseases that are not here in the USA. One disease in particular that African ticks can carry is fatal to cattle.

Could you imagine the ramifications of this disease getting loose among the nations cattle? The financial impact could reach the billion dollar mark if not billions. Not to mention the hardship it would cause everyone in this country. Beef would be scarce, if not impossible to get, so the price would go through the roof. The demand for pork, chicken, fish, etc would go through the roof creating a shortage and extreme price hikes of those as well.

This once again goes back to the reptile industry needing to properly police itself or the feds are going to jump in with all kinds of bans and restrictions. And it starts with the exporters in other countries. They need to do a better job of trying to remove any external parasites before shipping. The importers in the USA need to make 100% sure that they exterminate all external parasites before distributing imports all across the country.

If the exporters and importers are too cheap and lazy to do this then they are just going to put themselves and countless others out of business because the government IS going to step in and stop all imports the first time there is a major outbreak in our cattle industry.

well, if the parasites of other country's can form a problem they chould make laws for alot of other animals. like i said, compared to mammels reptiles have verry litle parrasites and they would not be the major issue here. and the boidae family is onley one groop so just to compare, it would be like 5 dogs atacking you and you onley stop one, and you let the rest chew on you. it doesnt solve the situation and snakes are some the last animals they could bann due to parrasites.

First let me thank you sharp for the info with links make education alot easier 2 thumbs up sharp. Newname that you you have just put all they felings and emotion into a touchy subject. I see That sharp is right on when he say's we need to watch and care for our own rights for reptile keeping.
1) People that make laws and vote them in are scared of reptiles. This is not to say all are but the greater oart that vote are.
2) Sharp is right on about the enviromental impacts that start at the point of contact with the reptiles ie.. exporters then the buck stops at the inpoters caring for the problem there. I myself would see the price increase as a trade off, so as not to have the feds all over our livly hood as breeders and hobiest alike.
3) Sharp I cant say it enough THANK YOU

It's been edited to remove "unnecessary" banter, but here's the latest in case you haven't seen it....

http://www.kingsnake.com/articles/Panel ... ipt08.html


The USGS people are way off base with that map they published. They really need to get a clue.

Rick

Very good read Rick. Thanks for posting that.